This footage was filmed and produced 27 August 2021.

The Taliban swept into Afghanistan’s capital after the government collapsed and the embattled president joined an exodus of his fellow citizens and foreigners, signaling the end of a costly two-decade U.S. campaign to remake the country.

The video shows Afghan refugees in Indonesia talking about their lives after Taliban takeover. The Afghan refugees are generally from the Hazara tribe, which for generations is a minority ethnic group that the Pasthoons dislike because their DNA line is Mongolian and adheres to Shia Islam. The majority of Pashtoons are Sunni Muslims. Of the several Afghan refugees seen in the interview video, only those who spoke fluent Indonesian were eager to receive an interview. They are Mahdi, in his 30s, and Abdullah, 23. Both of them arrived in Indonesia 7 years ago, not directly to Jakarta, but to UNHCR Riau, Riau Province. There, he learned Indonesian directly with the Riau Malay community. Then they, as in the interview answers, were also allocated to Depok, West Java, then to South Jakarta, to West Jakarta, and finally they seemed to deliberately camp around UNHCR Jakarta, namely on Jl. Kebon Sirih, Central Jakarta. Apart from those I interviewed, there were about 15 others who stayed there, hoping to be given a proper place to live, or to be sent to third world countries that accept refugees, or to be returned to Afghanistan with security guarantees, because what makes them threatened is the issue of ethnic differences and Islamic laws (Shia and Sunni have different Islamic laws).

Interviews:

AG : Which of you has been displaced the longest here?
Mahdi: Same all
AG: : Who for 7 years?
Mahdi: (Raising his hand)
Abdullah: I
AG : Oh, you have also been here 7 years old? Can you tell in turn, what was the thing in the past that caused you to flee here? Is there really threatened, huh?
Mahdi : Where?
AG : In your country
Mahdi : Yes, that's clear. Now it's the Taliban.
AG : Since you are from a tribe, what is the name of your tribe?
Refugee: Hazara
AG: There is also inter-ethnic animosity, you see, right? But when you were there 7 years ago, it means that the Afghan government is still Ashraf Ghani, right?
Mahdi : Yes, but always war, always killing people too. But now the country is in ruins, it's been taken by the Taliban.
AG : Yeah, but 7 years ago, the government was still Ashraf Ghani, why don't you try to ask the state for security, the president?
Mahdi: Ashraf Ghani works for other countries.
AG: How?
Mahdi : Ashraf Ghani working for another country?
AG : Yes, but he is your president right?
Mahdi : Yes, but he was invited to work for other countries, America and other countries.
AG : But from your tribe at that time, have you asked for help regarding security as a citizen?
Mahdi: Ashraf Ghani himself is the Taliban. The terrorist is Ashraf Ghani.
AG : Ah, the time?
Mahdi : Yes, he, Ashraf Ghani is also a terrorist.
AG : Why, Ashraf Ghani is the Taliban, how is that, it's impossible.
Mahdi : Yes, Ashraf Ghani is the Taliban, that's clear.
AG : How did he come to be the Taliban?
Mahdi: Ashraf Ghani ordered all the Taliban to come. Because there are many people from different tribes. Ashraf Ghani is a Pashtuun.
AG: Yes, the Talibans are pashtuun.
Mahdi : Pashtuun
AG : Yes, but not all Pashtuns mean Taliban, right?
Mahdi: If Ashraf Ghani is not the Taliban, why did he run? Why did he run to another country?
AG: So he's actually the Taliban, isn't he?
Mahdi : Yes, Ashraf Ghani is the Taliban. He also helps the Taliban.
AG : But how come he can become president?
Mahdi : Yes. That's obvious. If you don't believe it, you can look for the information. What does Ashraf Ghani do?
AG: Huh?
Mahdi: Some areas have been taken by the Taliban, Ashraf Ghani is silent, Ashraf Ghani is silent. Until the Taliban had entered Kabul.
AG : Yes, that is what is happening now. Or did he just leave it like that?
Mahdi: So at first it was done slowly. By the time the Taliban had entered Kabul, he had already fled.
AG : Did he actually know? Or is he even cooperating?
Mahdi: If Ashraf Ghani is not the Taliban, why doesn't he want to fight with the Taliban? Why did he hand over all his weapons to the Taliban?
AG : Even though he has an army?
Mahdi : All goods owned by the state, for military and command, why did he give it to the Taliban?
AG: But this...
Mahdi: Ashraf Ghani is a Taliban, a terrorist.
AG : Eh, 7 years ago when you were still living there, you felt insecure in your own country...
Mahdi: It's not safe
AG : But you have a president, who we are outside your country, think your president is anti-Taliban? So, the president has a responsibility to the people, right? What do you hold him responsible for that security?
Mahdi : Everyone has tried to tell him, he has to go the right way, yes. But he doesn't want to...
AG: For example, in what way are you doing?
Mahdi: For example, there has been a demonstration
AG : Oh, did you have demonstrations there too?
Mahdi : Yes, we have demonstrated. But he always runs away from trouble. Why? Because he is afraid, afraid that later for example everyone....the problem is that our country is different....Pashtuun people if something goes wrong, everyone will follow him. Don't be a pashtuun, don't want to go for real, always follow things like "I'm a pashtoo, you're a hazara", stuff like that....
(the refugees speak their tribal language, so it is no longer clear what the Mahdi is saying).
Mahdi : So the most pashtoon people there
AG : So this is actually an ethnic war, right, between you?
Mahdi : Yes, like that
AG : So far, no one has been able to overcome this ethnic war? You're a minority, aren't you actually a threat?
Mahdi : I don't know, how else? But if you want to share this everywhere, I'm basically saying, "Ashraf Ghani is a terrorist."
AG : Well, then you finally fled here. At that time, what did you use to take refuge here?
Mahdi : We took the plane.
AG : By plane? Oh, but that's how it is, if now it might be difficult, yes. But there's also a boat ride, huh?
Mahdi : Everyone (refugees) get on the plane
Abdullah: By boat, no, indeed Afghanistan has a sea, there is no sea.
AG : I don't understand, I just read on the news, somehow the path of the journey.
Mahdi : Everyone comes here by plane, you can't even take a car, you have to take a plane.
AG : Does that mean you have to bring a lot of money to evacuate? Or is it because you can't live there anymore...?
Mahdi : You can't live there. We're not safe there.
AG : Yes, but evacuating also costs your own money, right?
Mahdi : Yes, I came here with my own money, not from UNHCR. UNHCR itself cannot help people.
Abdullah: In fact, UNHCR gets money from us, from other countries. $10 billion dollars a year, UNHCR makes it because of us.
Mahdi: UNHCR takes money on behalf of refugees. Actually it was UNHCR that took our money, we didn't even get money from UNHCR.
AG : You mean that $10 billion is the fund that UNHCR received to be channeled to refugees?
Mahdi : If you don't believe it, try reading that (banner about UNHCR Indonesia and refugees). The refugees' transit period is over, but why am I still left here?
AG : So, for 7 years you lived here, how did you survive, even though you were not allowed to work?
Mahdi: We can't work
AG : So, where did your money come from?
Mahdi : We sleep here, not because we are poor.
Abdullah: Our friends and family, send money from Afghanistan or from maybe America...
AG : If I read in the news, you are also not allowed to open a bank account, so how do you send the money?
Abdullah: Send from Western Union
AG : Oh, so that's how?
Mahdi: None of us are poor people....
AG : Yes, you need money....
Mahdi : We are bored here. We want UNHCR to be responsible for the clarity of refugees' lives.
AG : Have you ever written to UNHCR, or if necessary to the Indonesian president, "This is what we have to survive, so what work do you do. Have you ever asked for that?
Mahdi : We are not allowed to work here
Abdullah: (points to the banner on the wall). That's about refugees in Indonesia and UNHCR, there is a rule year, Mr. Jokowi has also signed the decision (new regulation)....
Mahdi : Why do we say that the police are not allowed to install this or that, because they (UNHCR) are ashamed. Because it's about humanity.
AG : Why did you fly to Indonesia?
Abdullah: Because UNHCR is here. UNHCR's office is here.
Mahdi: If Indonesia closes the UNHCR office, I will leave Indonesia. I ask.
AG : You can't immediately evacuate to third countries, can you?
Mahdi : I beg the Indonesian government and Indonesian people, please help us, just close the UNHCR Indonesia office. Close the office, so I know what to do.
AG : So what made you fly here, because you thought, right here is UNHCR? So it's not because the goal is Indonesia directly, right?
Mahdi : If UNHCR closes its office here, I will leave Indonesia. But as long as UNHCR has an office, I will stay here.
AG: UNHCR has met you or not?
Abdullah: Not yet
AG : Or the representative?
Abdullah: Their office is here, but it's a lie. There is no one here (at the UNHCR office). Because PPKM needs 10% or 50% to work from the office, but the Satpol PP (Police Civil Service Unit) says there is no one. Just ask.
AG : This is for demonstration, isn't it? There are tents....'
Mahdi : Here we want to show that we have been in Indonesia for a long time, we are tired of living like this.
AG : Have you ever found a residential area? Temporary shelter? So 7 years ago, where did you arrive at Soekarno airport... then from Soekarno airport directly here?
Refugees: We are different here
Mahdi: We have entered Indonesia... I have been for 7 years, follow the UNHCR rules, it has to be like this, I am silent. I'm back in Riau. I'm always quiet. But now I can't stand it. We've been 7 years. UNHCR does not deal with refugees. If you keep quiet, how long will it take, 20 years...?
Abdullah: UNHCR for us, every time a refugee comes here, after 3 years they have to go from here to a third world country. We have lived here for 7 years, 9 years, 10 years, but UNHCR is not following the rules. We want UNHCR to understand the rules, Indonesia too, the rules they have made, not us.
AG : You live sedentary, where are you?
Abdullah: Already in Depok, already in South Jakarta, already in Palmerah, now here.
AG : Now here, where?
Abdullah: Over there is my tent.
AG : Oh, in the tent? But time elsewhere in the tent, right?
Abdullah: No. In the boarding house or home.
AG : Oh, is it even a tent here?
Abdullah: Yes, because we can't get a boarding house. UNHCR does not want to give boarding. We don't get money, don't ask for money, don't ask for food from local people or from UNHCR. We just ask them to follow the rules,
Mahdi : In front there may be a person (refugee) who was beaten by the police yesterday, now he can't walk, his heart was beaten. That UNHCR doesn't care how do people die? In any country UNHCR should help people. So it's a lie, I swear to God, it's a lie by UNHCR, the person in front of the bed is sick, they don't want to help.
AG : Even though they know how you are doing, don't they?
Mahdi: That person in front of the bed is sick, they don't want to help to go to the hospital. That's for refugees they have got $10 billion. And the police should also not be able to push (violence) to refugees...
AG : Ok, now what do you want to say? UNHCR is part of the UN, so what do you want to convey directly to the UN?
Mahdi : We hope that UNHCR will treat refugees, these people are 7 to 10 years old, please find a solution for the refugees. Don't turn it into a refugee's business. The refugees also have families, there are children, there are fathers, there are mothers, please help the refugees. That's what we expected.
AG: If you want to go back to Afghanistan, don't you want to?
Mahdi : If they say they don't want to help evacuate, he has to sign it first....
Abdullah: Or they guarantee us that it is safe to return there, so we leave now.
Mahdi : I will go now. If he gives a guarantee.
Abdullah: Or they just closed the UNHCR office.